Object Editor Data Balancing The Game

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Re: Object Editor Data Balancing The Game

Post  PanStyle on Fri Aug 30, 2013 12:05 pm

Eddie : I'm more conserned about what spell he should have than his skin at the moment Very Happy

About stuff that has been said on previous post, here is my thought :
- bloodmage and his fire, i also agree that somehow, it's a bit too much powerfull. How many times i see that horde can't creep because of his flammes + some support. Also, needless to say, that he can be awesome creeper pretty easily and great support. Because wave does less damage than his flammes but it's harder to hit an hero ans easy with a wave.
- NetherMage's finger of death hits with am but does 0 damage so it's no problem to not fix this.
- Python and Ninja : I think Python is fine. His wave is precise as hell but the way that it can double or triple hit make it balanced... or maybe imba vs heroes.
Ninja on the other hand, doesn't seems to have the same effect (double-triple hit) on the wave. That makes him the worst agi in the game.
- DeathKnight/Arthas + TaurenChief/Batman's auras : i played vs DK + TC aura yesterday with no speed aura on our side. It was hell. Without stun, horde was untouchable. Even panda slow didn't helped enough. Horde played good but this double movement speed is a nightmare and should be nerfed imo.
- Lich : I keep intact my throught on Death and Decay : OP AS FUCK. 12% is way too high. Every games i played yesterday, no matter which side, Lich was a key hero with D&D. Chain stun + D&D = op shit.

I think i answered all the things i saw.
Also i'll had :
- Blademaster : Metall and i talked about this yesterday in game while he was BM. We think that BM needs a light buff. I had a game were i had 700 creeps on alliance few days ago, horde best creeper was int and 400-450 creeps. I was owned. BM have shit stats. It's a powerfull hero indeed but a DH with 700 creeps is unstopable, a BM isn't, which isn't normal (also like i said, DH needs a slight nerf. I suggested few posts ago to increase a lot the manacost of immolation. Or also reduce his bonus str per level would be nice).
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Re: Object Editor Data Balancing The Game

Post  EddieBG on Fri Aug 30, 2013 12:37 pm

You forgot that demon hunter have weak spot without healers. Example dl, crypt lord beast lich(depend on players, at start he die a lot, but in end he only die not about stuns, but about high duratation of stun+death and decay), about blademaster, i think its clear Waves+stun can deny his kills. Thats just a random hero combo. Problem is that At Very end strength heroes actually became better than agility, because of hp/hp regeneration and dmg. About Auras i can only agree reduce dk speed percent to 10-12% and make it more about survival by increasing health regeneration. Leave Tc aura its ok imo 39% attack speed makes sense since glove grants 15% this cause double boost attack speed, it should be same as holy/unholy aura since ring grants 9hp per sec i think 18hp per sec its way better in order to reduce aura speed. Dispel can't be used so often vs animate dead/resurrection. My advice just terminate it or make them vulnerable. At level 6 you need 2 dispels in order to dispel taurens/knights it can only dispel weaker units like footman/grunts and riffleman +sorceress/trolls+shaman. Here solution make a lot more dispel dmg so with 1 use they can just dissaper that will help antilaming. With 2 speed auras at max lv 10% + 15% speed - thats above 400 move speed which is very fast and hard to catch. Lich Death and Decay like i said most people get annoyed when its castable in boss area, and they not always can move to dodge it. Solution make it 9% at lv 6 and reduce duratation, it should be not more than 15-20 seconds. In my point of view. All heroes must have exact same damage factor(example 100-110dmg) All heroes must start with exact same attack speed time depend on their base stats. Imo Strenght heroes can keep average attack at start which is 2.20 and intelligence heroes should have 2.25(why? because of autofocus such like fs kubi etc.). Agility heroes whould have exact attack speed like 2.10 in order not make them so powerful in early game. About stats per level to be honest make +1 to all stats per level to all heroes. No need +3 str for strength heroes like arthas clown etc. Just use gold to increase stats. I'd like also damage auras to be reduced little bit. Especially Trueshot Aura + War Drums and Command Aura all shouldn't have more than 15% at level 10. Then no one will cry ever again about auras.
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Re: Object Editor Data Balancing The Game

Post  Complexity on Fri Aug 30, 2013 2:42 pm

Bloodmage becomes a great creeper and supporter once he gains level advantage. If Bloodmage dies multiple times at the start this wont be possible at all. Which means that I don't see any reason to nerf the flame strike. Because in the worst scenario, when he really died a lot then due to the nerf of the flame strike he will be the most useless hero in the entire Alliance.

Both ninja heroes should be easier to click and waves are fine I guess.

Those nerfs are really pointless. Pan, in your situation if you couldn't win the advantage of speed then you had to try to deal more damage. Panda had to reskill Drunken Haze and skill Critical strike in your situation. You can't nerf something only because you lost to this certain thing.

Yes, Lich has always been a bad ass I like the ultimate I don't see why it should be nerfed. In fact I think all the heroes are fine how they are atm. I'd like to see other terrains, items, skins and that kind of stuff. Not nerfing the shit out of every hero.

Bm is way more flexible than Demon Hunter. To be honest I think both heroes are just fine, both of them have advantages in different states of the game. As example I think Bm rules especially the start and mid game. While Demon Hunter becomes really dangerous at the end of the game.  Bm is hard to catch once played properly, Demon Hunter on the other hand is easy to catch and has a hard time creeping. Compared to the Bm, Bm has an easy time creeping in the most circumstances.

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Re: Object Editor Data Balancing The Game

Post  borogal on Fri Aug 30, 2013 4:28 pm

i agree with suff, u cant say BM needs a buff, he is a freaking awesome hero. U cant get owned 1v1 with bm specially 450 to 700 creeps, UNLESS he had hkills/mass assist, and u went only for archers/morts while he killed grunt/raider.. which grants twice more gold.
About aura give 15% bonus to lvl 10 aura isnt good lots of game u have like 150 dmg so a claw is almost as good as aura 10. PLus potm aura with 15% mor dmg isnt a match compare to dr silence...
About auras, i would say the same its not cuz in one situation u get owned, that means it needs to be nerfed. Ofc some combos are just imbalance, while its all random, and on same skills lvl some win are just impossible. HOw ever u alwasy can try to play a diffrent way (ei reskill panda like he said).
About the hp raise for unholy holy aura, idk what are the stats now ?
About dispellable units, sure its annoying but i would keep them as it is, even on warden...

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Re: Object Editor Data Balancing The Game

Post  EddieBG on Sat Aug 31, 2013 9:42 am

Well speed auras are so powerful while they stack. Yesterday when I played DK aura at level 10 grants 51 move speed(normal hero move speed - 300 + boots of speed - 45 = 345 move speed). Tauren Chieftain grants 34 speed(While stacking both auras grants total speed of 431 + boots, and you should be ok?) Imo a heroes should not have more than 385-390 move speed speed while both auras stack. Even Dh with 150 agility can't catch that kind of a speed, the only way to catch them is with high level stun. My advice make that 431 move speed to 385-390. Dk aura grants more speed than tc, leave endurance aura but reduce speed of unholy/holy aura. When i calculate it its still faster than i expected 415, but i think if Cain makes each aura to grants 30 speed should be ok 400-405 speed can catch, but 431 speed sounds like impossible, and many failures when u trying to hunt range heroes, they run like a fast chickens and always protected by strength heroes like tc beast dk etc. Wonder how i know about speed? I have a wc3 tool that shows attack speed move speed health/mana regeneration rate. here watch:

This shows how much health and mana points here regenerate per second, and hero base speed(if it gets boosted by aura or speed items its show them also)
This shows hero attack speed. To understand it here some example. Current Attack Speed shows 1.59(this is from Classic BNet map). This means hero attack every time within 1 second and 59 hundredths. That's why i said to reduce heroes attack speed in order to make them not so powerful at start, I think agility heroes like Demon Hunter/Gromm Hellscream/Pandaren Wardancer/Blademaster/Warden/Skeleton Warden. have like 1.77 at least in BNet, i gotta check later in hna for each hero attack speed. On other hand strength heroes like Mountain King have 2,20(average) attack speed which is good for them. I'm not posting this because i lost vs 2 auras or some shit. Yesterday only with Paladin(Eddie)/Druid(Scylla)/Barbarian(Skull_San)/Priesters of The Moon(Fautzinn)/Demon Hunter(trofortoto) we be able to win the game only because horde don't have shadow hunter's abilities like Healing Wave and Big Bad Voodoo. Their heroes was Beastmaster(Gazes94)/Tauren Chieftain(Stifler01)/Lich(MiLaN.KoVaCeViC/Death Knight(uncut)/Pit Lord(Azid)

Look picture and see how hard is to catch them with that kind of speed, and still heal help us with some shackle by red


This is the base speed by Unholy Aura its far greater than Endurance Aura
I guess heals can speak for them selves that we get with 2 stuns 22 kills!  laughing laughing laughing
As You can see Stifler01 had 0 deaths all because of aura and his ulty
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Re: Object Editor Data Balancing The Game

Post  Complexity on Sat Aug 31, 2013 10:05 am

EddieBG wrote:Well speed auras are so powerful while they stack. Yesterday when I played DK aura at level 10 grants 51 move speed(normal hero move speed - 300 + boots of speed - 45 = 345 move speed). Tauren Chieftain grants 34 speed(While stacking both auras grants total speed of 431 + boots, and you should be ok?) Imo a heroes should not have more than 385-390 move speed speed while both auras stack. Even Dh with 150 agility can't catch that kind of a speed, the only way to catch them is with high level stun. My advice make that 431 move speed to 385-390. Dk aura grants more speed than tc, leave endurance aura but reduce speed of unholy/holy aura. When i calculate it its still faster than i expected 415, but i think if Cain makes each aura to grants 30 speed should be ok 400-405 speed can catch, but 431 speed sounds like impossible, and many failures when u trying to hunt range heroes, they run like a fast chickens and always protected by strength heroes like tc beast dk etc. Wonder how i know about speed? I have a wc3 tool that shows attack speed move speed health/mana regeneration rate.
I don't care about numbers, I care about how it goes in the game. Honestly I never had any problems with multiple speed auras. Why? Because the alliance can have the same speed auras. Arthas aura and Batman as example, it's exactly the same as Dk and Tc. Yes, it can be pretty annoying but as well challenging. It was a challenge for me to catch up with enemy heroes when I played Warden or any other agility hero.

Tc is well known as a hero which is hard to kill. Stifler plays cowardly (not an insult) in the most games I've seen him. I remember in a game where he played Lich and had lots of hp and defense and almost no damage. Makes sense that he didn't die.

As you see Ed, despite two speed auras they still did not manage to win. Your issue is non-existent in my opinion.

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Re: Object Editor Data Balancing The Game

Post  Metallbrecher on Sat Aug 31, 2013 10:27 am

borogal wrote:u cant say BM needs a buff, he is a freaking awesome hero.
oh rly??? do u know the stats boost of bm and of dh???
dh gets 2-3 strengh, 3 agility and 1-2 int per lvl..... while bm gets 1 strengh!!! 1-3 agility and 1 int per lvl.... as u see dh gets more agi more hp.... bm can have 200 creeps more than dh and dont have a chance cuz he gets nearly no statsboost..... i would prefer if he just gets like dh 3 agi every lvl until sort of lvl 25..... and dh hp boost is just awesome.... u just need maybe to buy 1 time +250 hp tomb and then only agi while bm needs hp hp hp hp hp or he dies
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Re: Object Editor Data Balancing The Game

Post  Scylla on Sat Aug 31, 2013 10:44 am

about aura : imo, we could reduce aura speed a little and stun duration and/or stun cd a little more because stuns are too important in game.

about BladeMaster : I think he is a good heroe but too fragile : just add more hp per lvl would be better Wink

about BloodMage : imo, we could also reduce a little his flame strike which do a lot of damage.
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Re: Object Editor Data Balancing The Game

Post  PanStyle on Sat Aug 31, 2013 11:43 am

Complexity wrote:Your issue is non-existent in my opinion.
Like the game you plays lately, non-existant as well.
I wish you were as more active on this thread than on HnA, it would be one more player and it's nice. Also, maybe you could see how some combo and heroes are broken instead of saying "all heroes are fine" and try to deny every things we say to try to evolve and balance the game that you doesn't even play.

Metallbrecher wrote:
borogal wrote:u cant say BM needs a buff, he is a freaking awesome hero.
oh rly??? do u know the stats boost of bm and of dh???
dh gets 2-3 strengh, 3 agility and 1-2 int per lvl..... while bm gets 1 strengh!!! 1-3 agility and 1 int per lvl.... as u see dh gets more agi more hp.... bm can have 200 creeps more than dh and dont have a chance cuz he gets nearly no statsboost..... i would prefer if he just gets like dh 3 agi every lvl until sort of lvl 25..... and dh hp boost is just awesome.... u just need maybe to buy 1 time +250 hp tomb and then only agi while bm needs hp hp hp hp hp or he dies
YES

Scylla wrote:about aura : imo, we could reduce aura speed a little and stun duration and/or stun cd a little more because stuns are too important in game.

about BladeMaster :  I think he is a good heroe but too fragile : just add more hp per lvl would be better Wink

about BloodMage : imo, we could also reduce a little his flame strike which do a lot of damage.
AMEN to all of this.
Special mention to this :
Scylla wrote:because stuns are too important in game..
This, 10 times.

Last game yesterday i played at around 2am was a 3v3 a bit for fun. Kurokii randomed batman and i randomed arthas. We both went aura 10 super fast to troll. Well, needless to say that it's pretty funny when you are on the other side of the barrier. Double aura 10 is just too much.

Also :
Eddie wrote:
Not like trofortoto is a reference, but, what he says is : "Ils sont trop rapides" means "They are too fast". Just wanted to point this out because we talk about aura and this screenshoot was there (and eddie doesn't speak french so that was a lucky coincidence)
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Re: Object Editor Data Balancing The Game

Post  borogal on Sat Aug 31, 2013 12:08 pm


Metallbrecher wrote:
borogal wrote:u cant say BM needs a buff, he is a freaking awesome hero.
oh rly??? do u know the stats boost of bm and of dh???
dh gets 2-3 strengh, 3 agility and 1-2 int per lvl..... while bm gets 1 strengh!!! 1-3 agility and 1 int per lvl.... as u see dh gets more agi more hp.... bm can have 200 creeps more than dh and dont have a chance cuz he gets nearly no statsboost..... i would prefer if he just gets like dh 3 agi every lvl until sort of lvl 25..... and dh hp boost is just awesome.... u just need maybe to buy 1 time +250 hp tomb and then only agi while bm needs hp hp hp hp hp or he dies
YES

Guys are u serious, where did u see that dh can creep vs the same combo as fast as bm ????
I remember so many game, with decent combo, great team, vs pretty much the same only bm vs dh, i take the bet that u cant creep as fast as bm with dh IF ur team does the work, while u cant focus bm early, he has to do his job....
It can be a matter of point of view, and as i remember metal doesnt like wd but like bm and to me his bm is stronger than his dh... "even if bm is weak", cmon bm can flee so easily, i dont know u die die die die die with illus overlvld (dont tell it never happends) mb am pots, i dont even plys with pots and never hp, and i dont die die die, ofc depends on combo, and u all know im not that good, but i aint liying.

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Re: Object Editor Data Balancing The Game

Post  EddieBG on Sat Aug 31, 2013 12:11 pm

Complexity wrote:
I don't care about numbers, I care about how it goes in the game. Honestly I never had any problems with multiple speed auras. Why? Because the alliance can have the same speed auras. Arthas aura and Batman as example, it's exactly the same as Dk and Tc. Yes, it can be pretty annoying but as well challenging. It was a challenge for me to catch up with enemy heroes when I played Warden or any other agility hero.

Tc is well known as a hero which is hard to kill. Stifler plays cowardly (not an insult) in the most games I've seen him. I remember in a game where he played Lich and had lots of hp and defense and almost no damage. Makes sense that he didn't die.

As you see Ed, despite two speed auras they still did not manage to win. Your issue is non-existent in my opinion.
Suffer read whole post, i said that we won only because horde don't have heal while alliance had 2 heals. Stifer wasn't playing cowardly as u said, he helped his team non stop. Since you don't played that game you just can't say that someone played cowardly. 431 move speed is far more faster than we can expect. In order to catch hero within 2 speed auras need agility with 300-350 agility to be able to slow his aura with frost orb/light/slow. My advice as i said make stack auras total speed of 400-405(it still fast enough, but it can catch hero with that speed) since at my post i said that Endurance aura grants 34 speed at 10 level and Unholy/Holy Aura grants 51 speed, why not make both to grants 30 speed? Make aura important not about speed but about Attack Speed and Health Regeneration. so 345+30+30 = 405 makes sence. Cain i hope u see posts and agree with it. Also since you don't have any problems about game doesn't mean that all agree with you, and if u read the post i mean both auras for alliance and horde.
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Re: Object Editor Data Balancing The Game

Post  Metallbrecher on Sat Aug 31, 2013 1:05 pm

borogal wrote:
Metallbrecher wrote:
borogal wrote:u cant say BM needs a buff, he is a freaking awesome hero.
oh rly??? do u know the stats boost of bm and of dh???
dh gets 2-3 strengh, 3 agility and 1-2 int per lvl..... while bm gets 1 strengh!!! 1-3 agility and 1 int per lvl.... as u see dh gets more agi more hp.... bm can have 200 creeps more than dh and dont have a chance cuz he gets nearly no statsboost..... i would prefer if he just gets like dh 3 agi every lvl until sort of lvl 25..... and dh hp boost is just awesome.... u just need maybe to buy 1 time +250 hp tomb and then only agi while bm needs hp hp hp hp hp or he dies
YES

Guys are u serious, where did u see that dh can creep vs the same combo as fast as bm ????
I remember so many game, with decent combo, great team, vs pretty much the same only bm vs dh, i take the bet that u cant creep as fast as bm with dh IF ur team does the work, while u cant focus bm early, he has to do his job....
It can be a matter of point of view, and as i remember metal doesnt like wd but like bm and to me his bm is stronger than his dh... "even if bm is weak", cmon bm can flee so easily, i dont know u die die die die die with illus overlvld (dont tell it never happends) mb am pots, i dont even plys with pots and never hp, and i dont die die die, ofc depends on combo, and u all know im not that good, but i aint liying.
ofc u can flee with windwalk.... but then u cant creep dude.... if bm creeps vs dh in 1 line 1v1 bm looses cuz he has to run back every 5 sec..... manaburn takes half hp and whole mana of bm.... and when u saw last time bm vs dh??? i played it very often last 3 months and even vs not rly pro players bm looses..... i had often 100 creeps more, but less hp and less agi.... and if u try to attack him 1vs1 u loose cuz of evasion.... u only hit most of time only 2-3 of 5 hits on him..... and as i said..... dh manaburn sucks for bm like hell + dh ulti gives him back hp and epic splash attack... bm can do nothing against it.... dh is only fuked vs bm if dh has no healer and 0-1 stun only in team vs bm team with healer and 4 stuns.... then dh looses vs bm... other ways never....
and just that u know about flee with windwalk..... that is easily countered with GEM!!!! u heard about it??? i dont think so.... after enemy team has gem... bm can only run around like chicken cuz he has no hp...
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Re: Object Editor Data Balancing The Game

Post  Complexity on Sat Aug 31, 2013 1:37 pm

PanStyle wrote:
Complexity wrote:Your issue is non-existent in my opinion.
Like the game you plays lately, non-existant as well.
I wish you were as more active on this thread than on HnA, it would be one more player and it's nice. Also, maybe you could see how some combo and heroes are broken instead of saying "all heroes are fine" and try to deny every things we say to try to evolve and balance the game that you doesn't even play.
That's a dumb argument. You know as well as I do that HnA hasn't evolved for like 5 months or even longer. Just because you don't see me in your games, doesn't mean I don't play the game anymore. I played this morning and everything is still the same as it was 3/4 months ago. I don't cry about sick combinations because I think the game is totally balanced at the moment. As it seems to me I'm not the only one who agrees on this.

I think that those auras which are in your opinion broken, in my opinion makes the game more intense. If you want to nerf those auras anyway, go for it. Just saying, it's a waste of your time since there are more important things to spend your time and afford into.


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Re: Object Editor Data Balancing The Game

Post  EddieBG on Sat Aug 31, 2013 2:36 pm

Complexity wrote:
I think that those auras which are in your opinion broken, in my opinion makes the game more intense. If you want to nerf those auras anyway, go for it. Just saying, it's a waste of your time since there are more important things to spend your time and afford into.
Well long ago boots granted good move speed and dope decide to change it in order to catch heroes who most of times escaped. This topic about auras are kinda same. Since you don't have to waste your time let us waste it for our selves. Just need permission from cain.
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Re: Object Editor Data Balancing The Game

Post  Complexity on Sat Aug 31, 2013 2:42 pm

EddieBG wrote:
Complexity wrote:
I think that those auras which are in your opinion broken, in my opinion makes the game more intense. If you want to nerf those auras anyway, go for it. Just saying, it's a waste of your time since there are more important things to spend your time and afford into.
Well long ago boots granted good move speed and dope decide to change it in order to catch heroes who most of times escaped. This topic about auras are kinda same. Since you don't have to waste your time let us waste it for our selves. Just need permission from cain.
Cain has been bug fixing for the last couple of months. People want new content, not unnecessary bug fixes. Get your priorities straight Eddie. But oh wait, no need. You'll never become a map maker.

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Re: Object Editor Data Balancing The Game

Post  EddieBG on Sat Aug 31, 2013 3:57 pm

Well since i got some knoledge in object data which is still in wc3 editor i suppose i can be map maker. Might not like mappers who knows jass, but thats ok for me.


Last edited by EddieBG on Sat Aug 31, 2013 4:02 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Object Editor Data Balancing The Game

Post  PanStyle on Sat Aug 31, 2013 4:01 pm

Complexity wrote:
PanStyle wrote:
Complexity wrote:Your issue is non-existent in my opinion.
Like the game you plays lately, non-existant as well.
I wish you were as more active on this thread than on HnA, it would be one more player and it's nice. Also, maybe you could see how some combo and heroes are broken instead of saying "all heroes are fine" and try to deny every things we say to try to evolve and balance the game that you doesn't even play.
That's a dumb argument. You know as well as I do that HnA hasn't evolved for like 5 months or even longer. Just because you don't see me in your games, doesn't mean I don't play the game anymore. I played this morning and everything is still the same as it was 3/4 months ago. I don't cry about sick combinations because I think the game is totally balanced at the moment. As it seems to me I'm not the only one who agrees on this.

I think that those auras which are in your opinion broken, in my opinion makes the game more intense. If you want to nerf those auras anyway, go for it. Just saying, it's a waste of your time since there are more important things to spend your time and afford into.
You found players this morning ? I didn't knew some played this early on HnA actually. Suck that none is playing in the afternoon then :<

And no, some stuff changed since 3/4 months. Cain did some little change here and there, it was on page 1 and 2 (you even saw it).
Also, even if the game didn't change, this doesn't means that the players, strats and metagame didn't.

Few months ago, nobody knew how to play Python, now some does and it kicks ass.
Playstyle with some heroes evolved, players evolved.

Just check some speedrunners ; they still play games that are 10-20 years old and always find new way to do something (like for exemple, Legend of Zelda : Ocarina of time).
So no, the game isn't exactly like 5 months ago, in my opinion.
But everyone has their own opinion and i'm glad that we have forum to discuss it Smile

borogal wrote:
Metallbrecher wrote:
borogal wrote:u cant say BM needs a buff, he is a freaking awesome hero.
oh rly??? do u know the stats boost of bm and of dh???
dh gets 2-3 strengh, 3 agility and 1-2 int per lvl..... while bm gets 1 strengh!!! 1-3 agility and 1 int per lvl.... as u see dh gets more agi more hp.... bm can have 200 creeps more than dh and dont have a chance cuz he gets nearly no statsboost..... i would prefer if he just gets like dh 3 agi every lvl until sort of lvl 25..... and dh hp boost is just awesome.... u just need maybe to buy 1 time +250 hp tomb and then only agi while bm needs hp hp hp hp hp or he dies
YES

Guys are u serious, where did u see that dh can creep vs the same combo as fast as bm ????
I remember so many game, with decent combo, great team, vs pretty much the same only bm vs dh, i take the bet that u cant creep as fast as bm with dh IF ur team does the work, while u cant focus bm early, he has to do his job....
It can be a matter of point of view, and as i remember metal doesnt like wd but like bm and to me his bm is stronger than his dh... "even if bm is weak", cmon bm can flee so easily, i dont know u die die die die die with illus overlvld (dont tell it never happends) mb am pots, i dont even plys with pots and never hp, and i dont die die die, ofc depends on combo, and u all know im not that good, but i aint liying.
The point isn't creep, it's stats.
You're right about bm being a better creeper especially in early game but only if DH isn't on the same line, then it depends of mates (does DH have support ? Does bm have support ? ect). But our point was that even if he have like 20-30% more creep than DH. DH can still keep up vs BM and others because BM have low stats.
I really love playing BM, my second favorite agi after Python. A is very interesting hero imo, way more than POTM for exemple. If BM has same stats like DH it would be too OP because of Wind Walk and mirrors but just a slight buff in str would be good i think (just very small, don't mess with an agi hero).
Imo agis should be kind of weak HP wise because they relate on fast damage dealed and movement but on mid-late game DH can be an hp-bag desperate

Also guys, if somehow, we ask cain to change something, and that it doesn't work, we can still change it back. But if there too many disagreement about a change of course Cain won't do it, but we can still discuss it Smile

Btw talking about Python, i have an hard time to know if his wave is balance or not. It's not really good for creeping but can be too awesome vs hero once you figured out how to use it. However i don't think it need to be changed atm, the hero is too young and need more test.
Ninja on the other hand...
Last thing about Ninja and Python, the kind of "blink" (leap ?) doesn't allows you to avoid bolt like a blind (with way lower cd) would do. That's a shame.

Oh and btw, i say it again : Cain can you please make Farseer's feeback an arrow effect too ? So we can activate/desactivate it. Maybe more player would try to play with this.
Unless someone have a problem with this, of course.


Last edited by PanStyle on Sat Aug 31, 2013 4:10 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Oops i had a double quote for no reason had to edit this shit xD)
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Re: Object Editor Data Balancing The Game

Post  borogal on Sat Aug 31, 2013 4:03 pm

Metallbrecher wrote:
Guys are u serious, where did u see that dh can creep vs the same combo as fast as bm ????
I remember so many game, with decent combo, great team, vs pretty much the same only bm vs dh, i take the bet that u cant creep as fast as bm with dh IF ur team does the work, while u cant focus bm early, he has to do his job....
It can be a matter of point of view, and as i remember metal doesnt like wd but like bm and to me his bm is stronger than his dh... "even if bm is weak", cmon bm can flee so easily, i dont know u die die die die die with illus overlvld (dont tell it never happends) mb am pots, i dont even plys with pots and never hp, and i dont die die die, ofc depends on combo, and u all know im not that good, but i aint liying.
ofc u can flee with windwalk.... but then u cant creep dude.... if bm creeps vs dh in 1 line 1v1 bm looses cuz he has to run back every 5 sec..... manaburn takes half hp and whole mana of bm.... and when u saw last time bm vs dh??? i played it very often last 3 months and even vs not rly pro players bm looses..... i had often 100 creeps more, but less hp and less agi.... and if u try to attack him 1vs1 u loose cuz of evasion.... u only hit most of time only 2-3 of 5 hits on him..... and as i said..... dh manaburn sucks for bm like hell + dh ulti gives him back hp and epic splash attack... bm can do nothing against it.... dh is only fuked vs bm if dh has no healer and 0-1 stun only in team vs bm team with healer and 4 stuns.... then dh looses vs bm... other ways never....
and just that u know about flee with windwalk..... that is easily countered with GEM!!!! u heard about it??? i dont think so.... after enemy team has gem... bm can only run around like chicken cuz he has no hp...[/quote]U seemed pissed or angry, chill thats just an arguement.
ofc bm vs dh is hard, to improve the game u cant take every one on one hero and fix it its not possible...
every agi counter each other... did i say bm owns dh 1v1 ?
ofc gem is annyoing but it comes after 30min ! Thats a lot of time, and if u are really really well focused on creeping u can hit 150/200 creeps seen it/done it so many time.. And if u cant means the other teams play well, so what just cuz bm doesnt win the game means he need a buff ? Really u dont see the whole picture... Ur arguement which isnt wrong is just only abour dh vs bm... so what how many time did u see dh picked in cw, and if u didnt see bm then u r not playing for long enough...

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Re: Object Editor Data Balancing The Game

Post  Scylla on Sat Aug 31, 2013 4:25 pm

PanStyle wrote:
Oh and btw, i say it again : Cain can you please make Farseer's feeback an arrow effect too ? So we can activate/desactivate it. Maybe more player would try to play with this. Unless someone have a problem with this, of course.
I'm ok too ! I don't like this hero because his spell [feeback is useless atm (if we want to take an orb) and wolves are good at the beginning/middle game but at the final, useless too ] and I find this heroe so weak too...
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Re: Object Editor Data Balancing The Game

Post  Complexity on Sat Aug 31, 2013 4:51 pm

What about the ninja hero of the alliance? His wave is still not effectieve. Small aoe, range and (damage?) His wave needs to be fixed. I did not play him during the game I saw him but my team mate was struggeling a lot with the wave.

p.s writing a message longer than one sentence at a phone is a challenge!

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Re: Object Editor Data Balancing The Game

Post  PanStyle on Sat Aug 31, 2013 4:59 pm

Complexity wrote:What about the ninja hero of the alliance? His wave is still not effectieve. Small aoe, range and (damage?) His wave needs to be fixed. I did not play him during the game I saw him but my team mate was struggeling a lot with the wave.
I do agree. Wave should be like python.
PanStyle on page 4 wrote:- Python and Ninja : I think Python is fine. His wave is precise as hell but the way that it can double or triple hit make it balanced... or maybe imba vs heroes.
Ninja on the other hand, doesn't seems to have the same effect (double-triple hit) on the wave. That makes him the worst agi in the game.
I talked about python again on this page and implied that ninja wasn't that good.

Also yes, computers are more comfortable than phone to post ^^
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Re: Object Editor Data Balancing The Game

Post  StiFleR01 on Sat Aug 31, 2013 7:25 pm

I agree with 2 points :
- activate/disactive farseer mana feedback attacks like archimonde is a good idea
- fix ninja wave

About dh and bm,imo no one of these 2 heroes shoudl be fixed at the moment, except dh bug Smile
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Re: Object Editor Data Balancing The Game

Post  Metallbrecher on Sat Aug 31, 2013 7:29 pm

StiFleR01 wrote:I agree with 2 points :
- activate/disactive farseer mana feedback attacks like archimonde is a good idea
- fix ninja wave

About dh and bm,imo no one of these 2 heroes shoudl be fixed at the moment, except dh bug Smile
and alchi bug^^
i aggree that dh shouldnt be made weaker cuz u need some skill to play him, but bm could get a bit more stats boost because he looses vs every agi in 1vs1 (only not vs ninja cuz ninja is as useless as milan^^) when both players are pro and rest-combo is good for both
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Re: Object Editor Data Balancing The Game

Post  Complexity on Sat Aug 31, 2013 9:09 pm

Metallbrecher wrote:
StiFleR01 wrote:I agree with 2 points :
- activate/disactive farseer mana feedback attacks like archimonde is a good idea
- fix ninja wave

About dh and bm,imo no one of these 2 heroes shoudl be fixed at the moment, except dh bug Smile
and alchi bug^^
i aggree that dh shouldnt be made weaker cuz u need some skill to play him, but bm could get a bit more stats boost because he looses vs every agi in 1vs1 (only not vs ninja cuz ninja is as useless as milan^^) when both players are pro and rest-combo is good for both
1vs1 Agility hero battle is all about skill. The one who plays his hero the best wins. Stats doesn't mean a thing.

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Re: Object Editor Data Balancing The Game

Post  Metallbrecher on Sun Sep 01, 2013 12:02 am

Complexity wrote:
Metallbrecher wrote:
StiFleR01 wrote:I agree with 2 points :
- activate/disactive farseer mana feedback attacks like archimonde is a good idea
- fix ninja wave

About dh and bm,imo no one of these 2 heroes shoudl be fixed at the moment, except dh bug Smile
and alchi bug^^
i aggree that dh shouldnt be made weaker cuz u need some skill to play him, but bm could get a bit more stats boost because he looses vs every agi in 1vs1 (only not vs ninja cuz ninja is as useless as milan^^) when both players are pro and rest-combo is good for both
1vs1 Agility hero battle is all about skill. The one who plays his hero the best wins. Stats doesn't mean a thing.
lol.... if dh is there with 100 agi and 2500 hp and u with bm with 80 agi and 1500 hp but u have 100 creeps more...... u loose equal how skilled u are...... dh evasion sucks heavy (40% is way too high... i would prefer 30% for better balancing or to make it not stuckable with sword cuz sword (20) + skill (40) = 60% evasion + 15% crit double dmg...)
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Re: Object Editor Data Balancing The Game

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