Pandaren Wardancer

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Re: Pandaren Wardancer

Post  Ace Ventura on Wed Mar 17, 2010 12:15 pm

Orc.Slayer wrote:
CaK_Funreal wrote:
Kinggollum wrote:LoL evry hero is dangerous against noobs Laughing
Signed.

I prefer +20 to attributes than mirrors which don't deal any dmg. I know that it's easy to trap with mirrors but I prefer more agi, as I said.

play vs a lvl >25 bm, maxed crits, lvl 10 stats, maybe lvl 1-4 ww and rest to mirrors
he can easily lame away your towers or use his mirrors as an imba block/surround
even no damage makes them still to the best summons ingame
imo thats the main problem....that he runs with 3-4k hp to barracks/towers uses mirrors and when you found out whos the real one the barrack/towers are almost/alrdy gone....the only way to fix it would be giving the bararcks the life drain/mana syphon ability which would be like the lvl1 hero spells or even worser, so it would have a chance to destroy one or more mirrors (would be only for heroes), but im not sure if the bararcks realy would use it and im not sure about the range of this, should it has the range to "protect" all towers at the bararcks or only the realy close ones

about weaken the mirrors in general: its very difficult because if they are even more weaker then now they would maybe become senseless and the bm sometimes even impossible to play with - not only pros play HnA...and noobs playing with bm alrdy struggle, mostly die non-stop and leave after a short while because they dont know that you have to play realy damn carefully at the beginning of the game (they arent mostly able to get him to lvl25, and if they do they are weak)
if the mirrors should be reduced then i would suggest to try it first with decreasing it by 5%
they should be still worth skilling it (imo all spells should be worth skilling them to lvl10 .... but you know its realy difficult - who needs for example a lvl10 brilliance aura tongue) and if the bm manages it to creep a lot and lvl up then he should be rewarded to be one of the best heroes in the game


CaK_Funreal wrote:If think still too much op, I gonna stats when I reach lv 15 on bm and I play with 4 claws so u know what dmg it could be with sword. With any stun it's quite simple to kill enemy. And a said A BIT. Dunno, mb 10 dmg less so on lv 4 ww instead of 120 it will be 110 dmg.
its alrdy decreased since version....ummh idk maybe 2.76o ? seems like i forgot to mention that in the changelog
atm its lvl1 40dmg, lvl2 55dmg, lvl3 70dmg, lvl4 85dmg....lvl10 175dmg
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Re: Pandaren Wardancer

Post  Orc.Slayer on Wed Mar 17, 2010 3:31 pm

maybe the barracks should have a mana siphon, draining 1 mana per second (idc if it's more) in a higher range, like 800
it should only target heroes
so the advantages are:
- it's not really harmful if you are drained, your regen is mostly higher than this small drain
- it will never stop anyone from teleporting away
- the mirrorimages will disappear when targeted by it and whenever it drains mana from the real blademaster, you can see that it's him


Last edited by Orc.Slayer on Wed Mar 17, 2010 3:32 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Pandaren Wardancer

Post  motion_man on Wed Mar 17, 2010 3:35 pm

Ace Ventura wrote:who needs for example a lvl10 brilliance aura
obviously spells are too cheap in general... if u check normal game, brilliance aura owns
edit: about images, give barracks dispel ability instead of mana / life drain?
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Re: Pandaren Wardancer

Post  Orc.Slayer on Wed Mar 17, 2010 3:39 pm

motion_man wrote:about images, give barracks dispel ability instead of mana / life drain?

dispell would remove all other spawns like wolfies, treants etc. and would even dispell your antimagic, wouldn't it?

correct me if Im wrong

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Re: Pandaren Wardancer

Post  motion_man on Wed Mar 17, 2010 3:43 pm

Orc.Slayer wrote:dispell would remove all other spawns like wolfies, treants etc. and would even dispell your antimagic, wouldn't it?
correct me if Im wrong

it wouldnt remove them, it would hurt them a bit, just like images, u see one with highest hp and u kno whos the real one, as for dispel, i think id trade my shield to save a rack, dunno about u
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Re: Pandaren Wardancer

Post  Orc.Slayer on Wed Mar 17, 2010 3:58 pm

ye but the towers would still focus the wrong blademasters, and it wouldnt be that easy to detect him, especially if he already lost some hp
sure you can, but only higher skilled players will be able to see it
so the dispell should have to deal higher damage, which would again make the spawns useless

just my thoughts

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Re: Pandaren Wardancer

Post  motion_man on Thu Mar 18, 2010 12:06 am

so that means that dispel shouldnt have big range (cos i dont think any summon can bring down the rack anyway)
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Re: Pandaren Wardancer

Post  Orc.Slayer on Thu Mar 18, 2010 1:12 am

well, treants help to tank and for example lava minions deal quite good dmg tbh
I think ace should decide it

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Re: Pandaren Wardancer

Post  Ace Ventura on Thu Mar 18, 2010 12:10 pm

i would like to try it first with the life drain because the dispell mana would also dispell roots, so if you root an enemy in front of his/her barrack it would be maybe dispelled...
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Re: Pandaren Wardancer

Post  w.10 on Tue May 25, 2010 6:36 pm

His caracter is better, then akama, because i can klick on him, and i can t always klick on akama. mad
But i think, it s not okay, to the windwalk not dispell the magic thumbsdown

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Re: Pandaren Wardancer

Post  Orc.Slayer on Tue May 25, 2010 7:53 pm

w.10 wrote:His caracter is better, then akama, because i can klick on him, and i can t always klick on akama. mad
But i think, it s not okay, to the windwalk not dispell the magic thumbsdown

use mirror images....

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Re: Pandaren Wardancer

Post  Cain on Wed May 26, 2010 1:51 pm

Smile

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Re: Pandaren Wardancer

Post  Guest on Tue May 10, 2011 11:00 pm

Oh yeah I love this Hero, Just made a 16-0 game with it ^^


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Re: Pandaren Wardancer

Post  Guest on Wed May 11, 2011 6:33 pm

LeeeroyJenkins wrote:Oh yeah I love this Hero, Just made a 16-0 game with it ^^
It's not a big deal to have statslike that with bm, I quite often have games when ppl have much more and no one is surprised.

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Re: Pandaren Wardancer

Post  Guest on Wed May 11, 2011 6:42 pm

Funik wrote:
LeeeroyJenkins wrote:Oh yeah I love this Hero, Just made a 16-0 game with it ^^
It's not a big deal to have statslike that with bm, I quite often have games when ppl have much more and no one is surprised.

I know.. But It's about Rating the hero, Not Showing if im good/bad...

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Re: Pandaren Wardancer

Post  dark_sephiroth on Sat May 14, 2011 12:55 am

LeeeroyJenkins wrote:Oh yeah I love this Hero, Just made a 16-0 game with it ^^


Sell 1 claw and take 1 glove Cool
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Re: Pandaren Wardancer

Post  Steel.DX on Sun May 15, 2011 7:00 am

Sell 1 claw and take 1 glove :Cool:
lets see:

bm base dam: 2-12, average 7
agi 166
single claw bonus: basedam +12
single glove bonus: cooldown modifyer + 0.15
basic cooldown: 1.77 (if ace changed this value it doesnt do a thing for this topic)
=> dps @ 3 claws, 0 gloves:

(7+ 166+3*12)*(1+2*1.66+0*0.15)/1.77=510.1

=> dps @ 2 claws, 1 glove:
(7+ 166+2*12)*(1+2*1.66+1*0.15)/1.77=497.5

=> gives you a 2,5% higher dps @ 3 claws Smile

ok sephi now is picky and wants me to take the difference in gold (900-350=550) into account by buying agitomes for it:
5agi*(550/950)=2,9 agi

=> actual dps @ 2 claws, 1 glove, +2.9 agi:
(7+ 166+2,9+2*12)*(1+2*(1.66+0,029)+1*0.15)/1.77=511.4

Shocked sephi owned me by 0,25% omg

now, what happens if i take 3 gloves instead of claws?
(7+ 166+3*2,9+0*12)*(1+2*(1.66+3*0,029)+3*0.15)/1.77=507.5
worse than 3 claws Smile

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Re: Pandaren Wardancer

Post  curious_SpiriT on Sun May 15, 2011 8:53 am

Steel.DX wrote:
Sell 1 claw and take 1 glove :Cool:
lets see:

bm base dam: 2-12, average 7
agi 166
single claw bonus: basedam +12
single glove bonus: cooldown modifyer + 0.15
basic cooldown: 1.77 (if ace changed this value it doesnt do a thing for this topic)
=> dps @ 3 claws, 0 gloves:

(7+ 166+3*12)*(1+2*1.66+0*0.15)/1.77=510.1

=> dps @ 2 claws, 1 glove:
(7+ 166+2*12)*(1+2*1.66+1*0.15)/1.77=497.5

=> gives you a 2,5% higher dps @ 3 claws Smile

ok sephi now is picky and wants me to take the difference in gold (900-350=550) into account by buying agitomes for it:
5agi*(550/950)=2,9 agi

=> actual dps @ 2 claws, 1 glove, +2.9 agi:
(7+ 166+2,9+2*12)*(1+2*(1.66+0,029)+1*0.15)/1.77=511.4

Shocked sephi owned me by 0,25% omg

now, what happens if i take 3 gloves instead of claws?
(7+ 166+3*2,9+0*12)*(1+2*(1.66+3*0,029)+3*0.15)/1.77=507.5
worse than 3 claws Smile

No it is not worse, because of the crits. More hits means more crits means more damage at all. And you forgot the bonus agi, because you have more gold by buying 3 gloves instead of 3 claws, nub!
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Re: Pandaren Wardancer

Post  Steel.DX on Sun May 15, 2011 8:59 am

No it is not worse, because of the crits.
correct
if somebody posts the crit values, ill calculate it correctly.
And you forgot the bonus agi, because you have more gold by buying 3 gloves instead of 3 claws, nub!
wrong, read the post to its end Smile

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Re: Pandaren Wardancer

Post  borogal on Sun May 15, 2011 9:10 am

Steel.DX wrote:
Sell 1 claw and take 1 glove :Cool:
lets see:

bm base dam: 2-12, average 7
agi 166
single claw bonus: basedam +12
single glove bonus: cooldown modifyer + 0.15
basic cooldown: 1.77 (if ace changed this value it doesnt do a thing for this topic)
=> dps @ 3 claws, 0 gloves:

(7+ 166+3*12)*(1+2*1.66+0*0.15)/1.77=510.1

=> dps @ 2 claws, 1 glove:
(7+ 166+2*12)*(1+2*1.66+1*0.15)/1.77=497.5

=> gives you a 2,5% higher dps @ 3 claws Smile

ok sephi now is picky and wants me to take the difference in gold (900-350=550) into account by buying agitomes for it:
5agi*(550/950)=2,9 agi

=> actual dps @ 2 claws, 1 glove, +2.9 agi:
(7+ 166+2,9+2*12)*(1+2*(1.66+0,029)+1*0.15)/1.77=511.4

Shocked sephi owned me by 0,25% omg

now, what happens if i take 3 gloves instead of claws?
(7+ 166+3*2,9+0*12)*(1+2*(1.66+3*0,029)+3*0.15)/1.77=507.5
worse than 3 claws Smile

^^ isnt a claw 15 dmg ? Smile
and what do you mean by dps ?
if we have the same definition in mind
The DPS of a single spell can be calculated as either (Damage / Cast Time) or (Damage / Cast Interval). The former, also referred to as "damage per cast time" (DPCT) is the amount of damage dealt over time spent casting the spell. The latter is used to express the spell's damage contribution over the total combat time, a figure used to express its damage contribution relative to other spells. For most calculations, an instant spells' cast time is treated as the GCD, 1.5 seconds / (1 + Spell Haste).
[HIx((dmin+dmax)/2+P+CP)x(1+BxSC)x(1+HA)]/T
where HI is the spell hit percent, D is the base damage, P is spell power, CP is the spell power coefficient, B is the critical damage bonus, SC is the critical strike percent, HA is the spell haste percent, and T is the base casting time.
so ofc here we admit here that there is no spell power since criti is only base on physical dmg and not any of magic, and since there is no power there is no coefficient. Critis is also and instant spell in another word a GDC Smile
so the real operation is [HIx((dmin+dmax)/2x(1+BxSC)x(1.5/(1+HA))]/T
dont know what kind of math you did but clearly if you take a look at the picture thge dps are like 300 something which is far away from 500 something dmg Smile I might be wrong but plz if i am explainwhat you meant Smile im curious Very Happy

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Re: Pandaren Wardancer

Post  Mathees on Sun May 15, 2011 9:26 am

borogal wrote:
Steel.DX wrote:
Sell 1 claw and take 1 glove :Cool:
lets see:

bm base dam: 2-12, average 7
agi 166
single claw bonus: basedam +12
single glove bonus: cooldown modifyer + 0.15
basic cooldown: 1.77 (if ace changed this value it doesnt do a thing for this topic)
=> dps @ 3 claws, 0 gloves:

(7+ 166+3*12)*(1+2*1.66+0*0.15)/1.77=510.1

=> dps @ 2 claws, 1 glove:
(7+ 166+2*12)*(1+2*1.66+1*0.15)/1.77=497.5

=> gives you a 2,5% higher dps @ 3 claws Smile

ok sephi now is picky and wants me to take the difference in gold (900-350=550) into account by buying agitomes for it:
5agi*(550/950)=2,9 agi

=> actual dps @ 2 claws, 1 glove, +2.9 agi:
(7+ 166+2,9+2*12)*(1+2*(1.66+0,029)+1*0.15)/1.77=511.4

Shocked sephi owned me by 0,25% omg

now, what happens if i take 3 gloves instead of claws?
(7+ 166+3*2,9+0*12)*(1+2*(1.66+3*0,029)+3*0.15)/1.77=507.5
worse than 3 claws Smile

^^ isnt a claw 15 dmg ? Smile
and what do you mean by dps ?
if we have the same definition in mind
The DPS of a single spell can be calculated as either (Damage / Cast Time) or (Damage / Cast Interval). The former, also referred to as "damage per cast time" (DPCT) is the amount of damage dealt over time spent casting the spell. The latter is used to express the spell's damage contribution over the total combat time, a figure used to express its damage contribution relative to other spells. For most calculations, an instant spells' cast time is treated as the GCD, 1.5 seconds / (1 + Spell Haste). Some spells have a reduced GCD as affected by talents.



where HI is the spell hit percent, D is the base damage, P is spell power, CP is the spell power coefficient, B is the critical damage bonus, SC is the critical strike percent, HA is the spell haste percent, and T is the base casting time.

dont know what kind of math you did but clearly if you take a look at the picture thge dps are like 300 something whichis far away from 500 something dmg Smile

lol guys sceptical

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Re: Pandaren Wardancer

Post  borogal on Sun May 15, 2011 9:28 am

hehe nerd talk hahhahaha you like it ?
btw play ?

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Re: Pandaren Wardancer

Post  Mathees on Sun May 15, 2011 9:34 am

borogal wrote:hehe nerd talk hahhahaha you like it ?
btw play ?

later^^

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Re: Pandaren Wardancer

Post  Steel.DX on Sun May 15, 2011 10:17 am

i dont have time right now but ull get a nice anwer, thx for that comment boro Very Happy

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Re: Pandaren Wardancer

Post  Steel.DX on Sun May 15, 2011 11:49 am

^^ isnt a claw 15 dmg ? :Smile:
eh, eventually yes, need to fix it next time


and what do you mean by dps ?
i mean the damage per second dealt by the bm just smashing on a target. its damage devided by attack-cooldown time. no magic or spells at all here.

dont know what kind of math you did but clearly if you take a look at the picture thge dps are like 300 something which is far away from 500 something dmg Smile I might be wrong but plz if i am explainwhat you meant Smile im curious Very Happy
here u go:
the physical dps is damage/cooldown = D/C

the damage D per hit consists of D=basedamage+agi+itembonus_damage+aurabonus, basedamage for the blademaster (or wardancer) is (2+12)/2=7, auradamage is not taken into account so its zero. the claws enter in itembonus_damage

the cooldown C consists of C=basecooldown/(1+(2*(agi)+itembonus_attackspeed)/100) (i wish this forum supported latex^^) where gloves enter in itembonus_attackspeed


i dont know where in the formulas crits come it, since my source
http://classic.battle.net/war3/orc/units/blademaster.shtml
http://warcraft.ingame.de/forum/showthread.php?t=180439
http://warcraft.ingame.de/forum/showthread.php?t=205172

do not tell. I would expect its a globlal factor on top of all of this. but as long as i dont know, i wont calculate it^^ we could find out next game with bm (crits are displayed)

btw how do you get a value of 300? what formula u use? if you type in the values i wrote, u should find 500...

do these lines help in any way boro?^^
you want matlabcode?^^

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